| Complaints |
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I live in Buckner Farms
in VB about 200 yards from Holland road. The jets consistently
fly out of the "Crash Zone" as shown on your web site.
I've dealt with this for three years and have numerous pictures
and videos. I wish I had a noise meter because I bet it would
read over 125dB easy! My three year old daughter might already
have hearing problems! She yells "Bad Planes" when
they get very loud. They are also at a very low altitude, approach
too slowly, and increase thrust when over our neighborhood. Some
pilots know how to land by approaching at a higher speed(very
little noise), I guess the less experienced are ordered to approach
slower then maintain or recover speed which creates this noise.
Some of the planes are so slow they wobble as they approach or
regain speed. The crash zone map is not correct! There are many
houses for sale here due to this.
I was born and raised in VB and can remember when the planes
would break the sound barrier over our neighborhood at the beach,
so it has not really bothered me until the last 8-10 years. I
am now concerned about my two daughters hearing and about one
of these planes falling out of the sky. It will probably have
to happen, like wipe out a couple houses and people, before all
these head strong politicians and government officials WAKE UP!
I am sick of the planes in this area and have planned to move
our family as well, but I must say that I have dealt with this
noise for WAY TOO LONG! I feel I deserve to be compensated since
the Government and City of VB are liars and selfish. How much
money do I hear burning when they burn off all the extra fuel
once the planes land so Oceana's funding won't decrease.
It is absolutely absurd how much we pay to live in VB and have
to put up with the jets getting louder and the City of VB being
mainly concerned with increasing revenue at the expense of its
citizens. I worked for the City in various departments for about
9 years and can say it is very unorganized. The City makes Millions
of dollars each month off its
citizens through court judgments. They will throw you in jail
for almost anything and nearly every offense, besides a basic
traffic ticket, will cost you $1,000 or much more! Back to the
point, the city is greedy and wants your money, so they WILL
encroach on Oceana (more property taxes).
Too few a people make too many big decisions for the majority,
and their decisions are WRONG! To all the people employed by
the government: It's a job, you picked it, you deal with it,
I have no pity or support for you.
Please post this on your web site, this is reality!, Kenan
Soblotne, July 18, 2006 |
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I had a really unsettling
incident happen April 12. I was in my backyard in Birdneck Point
when one of the jets went over so low, and so fast, doing "circus
tricks" that I "hit the ground" (not easy to do
at 62), and my cat scattered. When I was able to regain enough
composure to get up and go inside to call the Noise Hotline,
I reported that " obviously a neophyte incompetent was behind
the controls."
"Oh, no," I was told...."He knows exactly what
he's doing....he's practicing for the air show." I responded,
"With the cost of fuel, you mean my tax payer dollars are
paying for jet planes to "practice" over heavily populated
areas for unnecessary air shows?" He had no response. We
in CCAJN need to address the "air show" issues. Nancy
D, April 21, 2006 |
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I've been in Virginia
Beach all my life. I have never been appreciative of jet noise,
but it never affected my life to a great degree. I bought a house
in Courthouse Estates in 2001 and I enjoyed living there-until
late last Summer. Something's changed. I'm concerned.
What's going on at Fentress Airfield. On Weekdays the roar from
the non stop training has been unbearable. Its loud, relentless,
annoying, and stressful. Last night the noise went on past 12:30
am. How long will it go on tonight? Who knows.
My first four years at Courthouse Estates, the noise from Fentress
was not a factor. Now I am ready to move because of it. Is all
this a result of the new Super Hornet jets? Can we expect it
to be this relentless forever? E-Mails to the Public Relations
Officer go unanswered. Mike, April 25, 2006 |
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Let me do the math
for you. 2x60 minutes = 120 planes per hour for 12 hour days
= 1440 !! Then multiply this by 5 days last week plus yesterday
and you know why my nerves are frazzled.
The jets are flying the same flight pattern over Hilltop and
Lynnhaven mall for these 8,640 missions. No variation of flight
pattern means those of us in zip 23454 are assualted relentlessly.
Meetings at work, evenings at home and driving to and from with
no break. I can't drive with my windows open on a nice day. I
can't hear the evening news, I can't conduct conversation (2
jets per minute!). I was assulted when leaving my car to go into
work, home and Hilltop shops. My Thursday evening prayer group
was hijacked by the jet noise.
This is new and this is horrible. I've lived here for years and
I have NEVER suffered like I have this past week. I don't know
what I will do if the jets start up again this morning and fly
another 1440 missions over my head today. Bonnie Youngberg,
Virginia Beach, 23454, March 22, 2005 |
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I am an active duty Naval officer who has been living in VB
for 3 years now. I wish I had heard of your organization years
ago, as I could have at least joined and felt I was doing something.
(Moving to FL in November.)
I think the jet noise is blatant, abhorrent and over-rated.
I am sick beyond words of the pandering people who keep calling
it the sound of freedom. I find this claim to be cloying jingoism
put out by public figures trying to get the military vote and
by passive individuals. It comes down to this: there are parts
of VB that are almost becoming unlivable with this.
I used to live at the Linkhorn Bay Apts down off of Birdneck.
One of the main reasons I left was that the jets in that zone
drove me and my family mad. There were weeks at a time when they
would circle about 300 ft. over our home endlessly all night
long, burning exhaust and all that. We had to turn the TV up
to the top decibel to watch a late night movie. We didn't know
about the complaint line! No one believes me, but there was one
occasion when the F-18 came so low I saw the pilot's helmet as
it banked over my house. I think the whole War on Terrorism is
their excuse to make our lives unlivable by increasing their
ops and lowering the flight ceiling, knowing few would dare complain.
Even where I live now, near Lynnhaven Mall, there are some days
when they just circle, circle and burn , burn.
I am ONE military officer who has NO appreciation, NO sympathy
and NO burning love in my patriotic heart for the guys who make
the ops decisions regarding flight. If it is of any interest
to you, there is someone who appreciates your organization. If
I return to VB for another tour in a few years, I will be sure
to join you on that very day. Keep it up, LTJG Notapilot,
September 29, 2004
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Hooray for this Naval
Officer who had the hutzpah to step forward and tell it like
it is! (see above). I too am tired of the rhetoric of the flag
wavers, those that write in to the Pilot claiming the jet noise
is not as bad as it truly is. I am certain most of the writers
live well out of the noise zones and do not realize the impact
on those of us who endure it day and night. My home is in the
Hilltop section and I would like to extend an invitation to the
naysayers to drop by for evening tea on my porch when the jets
are night flying, it would take only one pass, also they could
feel the vibration on the porch floor under their feet. If that's
not enough, I could walk them into my bedroom where they could
hear the windows rattling and the plates on the wall. Keep up
the good work that CCAJN does, it's our voice., Name Withheld,
October 14, 2004 |
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If schools are going
to be insulated against noise and air pollution, will this include
private schools? My daughter attends Star of the Sea School at
15th and Pacific at the Oceanfront. The noise there is frequently
mindnumbing. Especially not good for those who are trying to
learn! She has told me how often they have to stop lessons to
wait for the jets to pass. (Yet I still see parents driving vehicles
with "I Love Jet Noise" bumper stickers. Amazing!)
We are still living in a jet noise zone and it is getting worse
daily. I was awakened a few nights ago at around 11:40 p.m. I
was too groggy to get up and call in a complaint. I did call
a few weeks ago when a seemingly endless noise bombardment was
in progress. I've lived in Va.Beach for 24 years, my husband
has been here since the 60's. Neither one of us can believe the
increase in noise level. The night I called to complain recently,
I was almost in tears with the onslaught. It was ceaseless, with
only a few seconds between passes. I was told by a very friendly
fellow with a sense of humor that the usual runway was blocked
or could not be used for some reason. He apologized and told
me only six more minutes and they would be done. It was closer
to 15 or 20 minutes, but it had already gone on forever! The
Navy must be working hard to put seemingly sympathetic people
on the complaint line. And I'm tired of feeling guilty of non-patriotism
because jet noise bothers me. I'm a very patriotic American but
enough is enough! Sorry to vent. I can't help but wonder if some
of those "I Love Jet Noise" bumper stickers will be
coming off when the noise level reaches its' full peak. Heaven
help us., Name Withheld, August 31, 2004 |
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Please put me on your email list,
I would like to join. I live at the Oceanfront and the 2 AM jet
runs like we had last night are absurd., Name Withheld, September
1, 2004 |
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During the recent practice
for an airshow we were subjected to flying at all hours and one
time I was truly terrified, my heart beating loud and fast as
I ran for the house when one of the planes caught me outside.
Even with my hands over my ears it was a deafening sound. I called
the complaint line and was told that they were within the law
flying faster and lower when they were practicing for an airshow.
I thought we had managed to get some relief from this but apparently
not as it continued for another day or so. The airshow wasn`t
even in this area but the practice was. Can you comment? Dorris
Mediate, April 18, 2004
CCAJN Reply: The fact is that even when flying
airshows, there are restrictions about flying low and fast over
populated areas in the Federal Air Regulations. The Navy ignores
those, and pretty much does what it wants which is to fly very
low and very fast (and very loud) over the areas around Oceana.
However, even though they are ignoring the limits in the regulations,
(the law) there is no supervisory or regulatory group willing
to take them on.
The Navy considers the airspace around Oceana to be their own
to do with as they wish - and that's what they do. A wise philosopher
once said that to protect something is pretty much like owning
it. Since the Navy is "protecting" us, apparently they
feel that it is perfectly fine for them to continue to operate
in ways that are essentially heedless of how we're affected.
CCAJN has communicated with the Navy on this subject several
times. We have had some assurances, and from time to time, seemingly
some relief for short periods. However, they always come back
to doing it just as they have right along. Apparently it's somewhat
inconvenient for them to arrange these practice sessions in a
suitable location, so they just don't bother.
We continue to persist, but until there is a tragedy, it's unlikely
that they will make any meaningful changes. |
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USING COMPLAINT WEB FORM FROM MIKE: April 7, 2004: 501PM Ground
Run-up, Subject Other:, 2AM wed april 7 2004 outside engine testing,
called in complaint and asked to be called in morn as to why
outside test...never was called
E-MAIL TO MIKE FROM RAY FIRENZE: April 8, 2004: 9:28AM: No complaint
was received by my office from you until this email. I did go
over to the complaint desk and stressed my concern that yours
was not recorded. I will log your complaint in the data
base and forward up the chain of command. Engine turns at idle
power may be conducted anytime on the airfield and i do not know
what the power setting was when you called. Again, i will forward
this info to include this response to you. I also received your
complaint with regard to the flight demo.
To RAY FIRENZE: April 8, 2004, 1:39PM: Ray, I was also told
by the officer in charge that if it was the squadron that came
in @11:pm that they " would be in big trouble " for
doing engine testing and that the OIC would go down and check
immediately. Very soon thereafter no more noise... Mike
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6:00am: Two 707s, followed
by about three FA-18s flew VERY low (less than 1,000 feet) between
15th & 16th Streets, (west to east) over Cooke elementary
school. We called NAS Oceana Noise Complaint at 433-2162. It
was busy for a while. The person who answered the phone around
6:15 said it was the Spanish air force, and I believe he first
said I didn't understand their operations. I said great, there's
that I can't understand the military attitude.
I asked the person to repeat the explanation to my husband, who
is ex-Navy. The person then said it was the Spanish air force,
and that they don't understand our operations. My husband said
that was BS because they should have understood from a briefing
they should have had this morning.
I said this is a public safety issue because if the planes fly
over our homes, they could crash, which did happen the other
day. I said how can this be the sound of freedom when we aren't
safe in our own home. The Oceana person responded that I had
the freedom to move into my home. (That was unprofessional, rude,
and did not answer the question.)
I informed the Oceana person that our home was built in 1932,
before the Navy was here, but more importantly, we studied the
AICUZ maps and we are not in a crash zone according to the map,
but we are when planes fly over our home. Also, we are in a 65-70
decibel zone, but the noise is MUCH louder than that. No one
discusses anything about the noise zones being averaged anything
when you buy your home. If that is the case, then ONE of the
typical flights we hear would take care of the average on any
given day.
Please report this unprofessional behavior to anyone who could
make a difference. Also, please ask why these flights had to
happen at 6:00 on a Sunday morning.
Thank you!
Barbara Clark and Michael O'Neil, March 28, 2004 |
| CCAJN -
Keep the Pressure On! |
| * |
..."Please keep pressuring the city, state, and federal
officials to approach the Oceana problem reasonably and responsibly.
Keep reminding them that perhaps the (questionable) ecomonic
benefits of having fighter squadrons based here are insignificant
when weighed against the adverse impact felt by almost one-third
the city's population. Keep in the forefront of the discussions
the fact that this is a serious quality of life issue.
Never let the politicians forget that Virginia Beach needs
to look forward, and plan for the day when the Navy pulls its
fighter jets out of Oceana for good. Remind them that despite
anything they do, any policy they enact, any effort they put
forth, the jets are leaving one day and there is absolutely
nothing they can do about it. Common sense dictates that
the Navy base its jets somewhere where effective pilot training
can occur. American taxpayers should demand no less. How many
taxpayers are aware that both Navy and elected officials agree
that pilot training at NAS Ocean is sub-optimal? In addition,
if they knew, would they not question why both Navy and elected
officials continue to insist that NAS Oceana remains "suitable"
and "viable" for the foreseeable future? I do. Moreover,
I am glad there is an organization like CCAJN to put out the
message." Name withheld, February 6, 2006
|
| Base
Realignment Position (see
CCAJN News Service of April 7, 2005) |
| * |
Copy of Letter to City Council
March 28, 2006 from Barbara Clark
I understand you feel you need to do whatever it takes (almost)
to save the jets. But I am not comfortable with spending taxpayer
dollars to suppress Virginia Beach's economic development potential,
especially without a vote.
Be that as it may, I am particularly shocked by the proposal
to "encourage" property owners to give away avigation
easements without compensation and to give up their right to
sue over jet noise. The jets will be louder. The AICUZ and crash
zones will therefore most likely grow.
Citizens have a right to be heard and to attempt to protect the
peaceful enjoyment of their property. It would be frightening
if you pass this particular amendment because it would feel like
you are not interested in protecting citizens' rights, or even
working with the Navy to try to live peacefully together. They
can do whatever they want and citizens have no say. Would they
be able to land on our homes???
This amendment would affect the entire Oceanfront, the gem of
our city, that has tremendous economic development potential. |
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With all the funding for 2005 for the OLF taken out of the
Budget, why are you not stressing this fact to prevent any of
the planes from coming to Oceana. The OLF in Washington County,
is an integral part of moving the planes to Oceana. FR Doc 03-229838,
explains the decision to move the Super Hornets to Oceana and
mentions that OLF Fentress will only be able to accommodate one
Carrier Air Wing.
I think it is time for someone to ask for the Courts to step
in and put a hold on anymore planes being diverted to Oceana
until the issue of the Washington County OLF is back on track
and fully funded. The OLF that would be accessible to both Oceana
and Cherry Point was a major factor to re-align the Super Hornets
to Oceana. Charlie Bowdoin, Virginia Beach, April 10, 2005
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BTW - All the negative talk of economic
impact is reactive gag reflex! If NASO were to realign to a better
use (not close), I think you'd see MORE business migrating from
other area cities to SE VB. Corp landing industrial park has
NOT attracted out of town businesses BECAUSE of the jet factor.
VB has something everyone seems to miss....WEATHER , WATER &
location!!! Many zipcodes would see an increase in real estate
values over time. When Detroit had auto manufacturers close plants
in the late 70's, did it blow away? No... If a message filtering
out the noise of "doom & gloom" economics was spread
out to the masses... It would help this effort.
I worked at NASO from 81-87, left the area for the mountains
of PA for 4 years, and came back last summer primarily due to
weather. I couldn't believe the building boom in this area, and
the usual lack of city planning with respect to roads. Having
the perspective of being away for 4 years, I truly believe the
city has lowered the quality of life here due to their greed
for tax base. Your Org is not the enemy here, the city "same
ole - same ole" attiude coupled with a dose of arrogance
is!...
G. Basham, April 29, 2005 |
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Thank goodness that this action
is being taken....... The Hornets have to go........ The noise
lately is INTEROLABLE................Any person who says that
this type of noise is compatible with normal community living
is kidding themselves....... The political/economic interest
must be silenced and recognized for what it is........ Bring
in any other aircraft, but move the Hornets...................
Please push this action...................., M.J., Virginia
Beach, April 8, 2005 |
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Just for the record, I concur and fully support
your position as relates to NAS Oceana. You can log me in as
a resident of Southall Quarter, Howard B. Allen, April 8, 2005 |
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I agree. It's obvious the
navy and even city council have little respect for the quality
of life we as citizens use to enjoy and now have to endure.,
Dave, April 7, 2005 |
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I fully support CCAJN's position
on jet aircraft realignment at Oceania. The position offers a
rational basis for reducing the environmental impacts that excessive
jet noise is imposing on a sizable percentage of the local population,
and it preserves the economic benefits of the base to the overall
community. The position is a "win-win" situation for
all concerned., Herb K., April 10, 2005 |
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I support you in your efforts
to make Virginia Beach a quieter and safer place for all., S.B.,
April 9, 2005 |
On Encroachment, the City of Virginia Beach's
response, and CCAJN's stated position
have prompted membership to speak out. Here is what a few
of you have to say:
(to read CCAJN's position on encroachment, go
to Hot
Topics.) |
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I understand the Navy's desire to
implement the JLUS to restrict development in the high noise
areas. However, in the case of the Laskin Road area the development
is already here. It makes little sense to challenge new residential
area development, when in many cases existing residents are already
in place which are adjacent to the areas that the Navy is opposing
for development.
This would only make sense if the Navy/City had a plan to roll
back existing encroachment. Are there any proposals to publicly
condemn property in the high noise zone, and for the Federal
Government to buy this property up and thereby move out residents
which are impacted by the adverse noise levels? name withheld,
March 29, 2004
Follow on e-mail: Since there is no plan for a "rollback",
I presume that the myriad of high noise and health and safety
risks associated with fighter jet carrier landing training does
not exist for current affected residents.
Either there is a health and safety problem; or there is no health
and safety problem. If it is a problem then the City of Virginia
Beach and the Federal Government should embark on an active program
of removing residents and businesses within the high noise, and
safety crash zones (not to mention prohibit future development).
If there is no health and safety problem then there should be
no further restrictions on property development.
I find that the approach by CCAJN, the City, and the Navy to
be inconsistent. How can on one side an argument be made that
a naval fighter jet training base must be maintained within the
heart of one of the most densely populated cities on the east
coast, while at the same time say that the Navy can make restrictions
on how selected tracks of land are developed which lie between
already developed property within the same densely populated
city?
I guess the idea is to keep the number of the affected population
low enough to allow politicians to ignore the results of their
zoning policies. Great for the developers and too bad for the
160,000 (give or take a few thousand) fools who should have not
have chosen to live in Virginia Beach in the first place. But
I guess an honest assessment by the City of Virginia Beach that
living within large areas of the city is a health hazard does
not fit within the city's marketing and development strategy.
But as usual it is all about money. . . who (developers, real
estate agents, bankers, and building contractors) gets to cash
in and who (residents) pays the price in increased health and
safety risk. All of which was promoted and approved under the
authority of our publicly elected city officials. I suppose that
expecting public officials would take responsibility for maintaining
public safety is asking too much.
Thanks for your answer to my question and I appreciate your
efforts in attempting to influence the management of this colossal
failure in public policy. |
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All the news about encroachment
and such, but nobody ever talks about the simple fact that Oceana
is making MORE NOISE with LOUDER JETS and MORE OF THEM. I've
lived near Oceana all my life. I eventually bought a house near
Oceana. I didn't really mind the noise. I kind of admired those
awesome machines. In a way I feel betrayed. I was willing to
deal with the noise and did so for 30 years. I had no idea it
would get MUCH WORSE. I will soon be leaving the area because
of the noise. F/A18s are simply TOO LOUD to be based near where
people live. Simply put, there is a limit to what people should
be expected to tolerate. As much as I don't want things to get
louder I would also hate to see Oceana closed. If we could be
assured that the F/A18s (current or "Super") would
not perform "touch and go" flights at Oceana, things
should be fine. The occaisional Earth-shaking roar of them going
to and from the base would probably be tolerable. .-- F.S.,
February 14, 2004 |
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Based on the dubious logic behind
"DNL" noise measurement: if I get hit by a speeding
bus, I should be just fine because most of the day I was not
being hit by a bus.--
F.S., February 14, 2004 |
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I agree it would be
silly to go against all your previous positions and advocate
more growth around Oceana. That would, among other things, be
morally wrong. I would hope that people like John Warner would
simply side with the Navy and tell the city if it wants the military
to keep the base here it will have to listen to them, not try
to go over their heads.
As far as the issue of jet noise goes back, I wrote an article
for Metro Magazine in the mid 70s, urging that Oceana be
closed, since it was making the area uninhabitable and threatened
the lives of residents. In the next month's issue Congressman
Whitehurst responded, saying Oceana was overall a big benefit
to the city. That was just about 30 years ago. The argument that
nobody minds jet noise is really a stupid one. Of course,
the Navy has to field all those phone calls from unhappy
residents, so they know there's a problem. Incidentally
I think your current attitude toward Oceana is the correct one
to take and is so moderate toward the problem that there
is really no rational argument against it.--Ed Bacon |
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I totally agree
with the approach CCAJN has used in the past and continues
today. Keep up the good work and thanks for doing what most of
us are unable to do. The City Council seems bent on "suicide"
because of their greed. --Bob Clapp |
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Though I wish more
people would make the connection between this area being
second in the nation behind Pittsburgh in "brain drain,"
and the potential of high tech corporate development should the
Navy decide a city of 435,00 is not the ideal place to
train pilots and abandon Oceana, I agree your agenda
of pragmatic compromise is the high road. Let's
hope, though, that the developers get their way and, as you say, nature
takes its course. Thank you for your great work on behalf
of many of the residents of Virginia Beach and Chesapeake.--name
withheld |
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My thoughts where the
same as others members, that keeping quiet on the encroachment
issue and letting the Council drive the jets out would have
been the best approach. However I see your point, also. I'm curious
as to weather the reduction in fly bye's with jets 2 to 4 times
louder is actually a better quality of life or not. We'll
see?
Thanks for the effort and keep up the good work! --Dave |
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Kudos is due to all
CCAJN Board members for defining your policy and sticking
with it. Openness and consistency is not something VA
Beach city council can be relied on for. Keep up the
good work you're doing. It is encouraging to
know that someone is keeping tab on what is
truly for the best of our community. --Gabe Jimenez |
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I agree 100%
with CCAJN policy and appreciate them taking the high road.
If CCAJN had taken the position early on to close Oceana
NAS then I do not think that the changes agreed to by the
Navy would have been considered, let alone adopted, because CCAJN
would have been considered a crazy extreme group and no
one would have taken them seriously. I too, do not want
Oceana NAS to pull out of Virginia Beach, even though I
live in Chesapeake. I don't think it is necessary as long
as the second OLF is built. Unfortunately, it will be a
long time before we get the field but, at least the Navy
is trying to help the citizens somewhat have to say, secretly,
a little part, just a little part of me would like to see
Oceana pull out, or at least really threaten to, so I could see
the city Council squirm. --Teresa Lane |
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I am in full agreement with your
logic and your plans and your email. The City Council
may, in the end, drive the Navy out. But whether
that happens or not, CCAJN is doing an incredible job of staying
the course and being persistent and knowledgeable on the subjects.
--Sylvia Boecker |
| On the Pilot's Out of Touch Editorial on Noise
Complaints, (see E-News dated 12/29/03) and (see E-News dated 1/10/04) |
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The letter that was
published by the Pilot and by a editor of the Pilot is a tremendous
disgrace for journalism as a whole. The New York Times fired
a reporter (Blair) for his outright lies.The Pilot has yet to
even file an apology. Concerning the era that we live in, where
we count on our Media to be a trustworthly source of information,
I will never believe anything in print from them again. They
are an absolute disgrace! --Dave Sawyer, January 10, 2004 |
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If they don't think
there are many jet noise complaints then they need to go back
and review the hearing that was held at the Pavilion! Marcia
Humphrey, January 10, 2004 |
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I have tried on several
occasions to submit a noise form to Oceana using the form available
on their web site. The form will not work or transmit. I fill
out the information and attempt to send. Can you help me to find
out what I can do to correct this problem. I want to complain
about several things to do with Oceana noise. Please help........J.C.,
January 12, 2004
CCAJN RESPONSE:
Ray Firenze at Oceana is the Community Relations officer, 433-3158.
Troy Snead, the PIO, is actually the guy who runs the Website,
I don't know his extension, but he can be reached through the
Oceana switchboard. |
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We need to thank all
those individuals that have put "I love Jet Noise"
bumper stickers on their automobiles for they have essentially
admitted to a problem. They truly are advertising our cause and
not theirs. -- Gabe, December 29, 2003 |